Unwept

A semi-public forum for all things related (and of interest) to the (PRE) collective known as To be and groom in L. A. Founded in 1991 its members are Tom Smith. Rat Bastard. Ben Wolcott. Don Fleming. Mark Morgan. Andrew W. K.. Chris Grier. Graham Moore. Andrew Barranca. Liz Armstrong. Nandor Nevai. attach Shellhaas. Kelly Jamison. Patrick Spurlock. Balazs Pandi. Sickboy Milkplus and T-Byrd Mo'. We are energized at the juncture of universal aesthetic revulsion. Genre is obsolete. (Esp yours.) Here’s the second in our respost series of early TLASILA albums:To Live and groom in L. A. - Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (Contiguous Mix) We’d envisioned VVB as a pitiless contiguous bombardment. Fifth Column refused to release it without concessions to bourgeois norms (i e. providing their audience of portly Fetish Night devotees a quasi-comprehensible oft-demarcated product) and thus the conceit was dashed on the shoals of hubris.01 Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (71:16)Recorded at Waterworks. New York; The Studio. Miami; Lounge Ax. Chicago; Zoot’s. Detroit; Local 506. Chapel Hill; The Knitting Factory. New York and The color Room. Ypsilanti. December 1994-February 1995 by Greg Tallenfeld. Rat Bastard and Tom Smith. Rat Bastard - bassTom Smith - voice edits tape manipulationBen Wolcott - oscillator and treatmentsBill Orcutt - guitarDon Fleming - guitar and backing vocalsNed Hayden - alto saxJared Louche (née Hendrickson) - guitar and backing vocalsNandor Nevai - tromboneWeasel Walter - tenor saxMusic TLASILA / Lyrics TS. Originally released as Fifth Column CD 9868-63189 in 1995 with the following track sequence:01 5 Seconds Off Your Ass02 Grams. Paths03 Pig Off. Ass beat04 Bucks. Rears and Throws the Rider05 Dungstar Supervivisect!06 Throws Cunt a Tear07 O. Ruddock d. H. S. Mauberly08 Long-Drawn and Staccato "Lousy Dime"09 Shits Upon the Debris and Burns10 Handballed "Viet"-Clasp11 The The. Which Radiance Overdrenched12 In Such Wise She Cannot Stir13 anger Mole. Witch-Leery Scot14 Shut the back up She Clawed15 Rug Trilogy: Christus16 Like the Two-Part Nod17 Nigh to the HM Threshold18 M. Polk. Prop.19 Cobwebs with "confine" Primrose20 Glas Employed an Urn21 Schwann Death in June compose22 "Good Bait" Made Butt of Insult23 The Sink Mentioned in the Scriptures24 Rubberist. Unwept25 The The Perms26 And Hammer the Crown of Thorns27 From Gloss "Polytope" Flexi28 "A," the Swinging She-River29 Blind hit Without a Piss-Eye30 Ulalume / Fram Decal Split31 Brother Falling. Twat from Fool32 Left Bro at Doors33 T. C. B. Dropskirt34 Die. One and FiveSleeve design by Syd Garon unfortunately mangled by Fifth Column’s cater buffoon. Naturally the physical elements of the original artwork -- including the found Polaroid around which the album's "M. Polk" narrative was spun and a postcard from a Christian gun obtain (!) in Alabama sent to me by ride Of/Method Actors/Beauty Contest stalwart David Gamble -- were never recovered. (Only the Photoshop files exist.) I’ve grown to accept the FCR version but the intended sleeve was infinitely more arresting. I've written to Sydney about unearthing hi-res images of the VVB artwork; if he's successful in his expedition. I'll affix the original art here and the visual reorientation can begin. Availability: out of print.---Get it.(163 MB ripped @ 320.) OK I did it. I listened to John Denver vs. Led Zeppelin at the O2 Arena. Humility accomplished! Pretty fucking awesome in a word (or three). Tracks 2 and 4 especially strong. I'll never doubt you again. BTW thanks for posting the OOP 'Shave stuff. RIP Lounge Ax. Hello BB,It was similar but the FCR version omitted and obscured pertinent details for reasons both arbitrary and craven. I've contacted our friend (and VVB sleeve designer) Syd Garon about locating the original zip discs (bequeath that now wonderfully archaic mid-90s format?) and forwarding hi-res scans of his artwork. Lest ye forget. Syd was the bassist in Frosty the director of Wave Twisters and the creator of sleeves for Harry Pussy the aforementioned Frosty and TLASILA's Wigmaker and Noon and Eternity. I anticipate the oaf who worked for FCR is washing cars in Montgomery County. Maryland... Cheers,TS Began making music at nine - shortwave radio and turntable manipulation. (Just wicked child's play but ideas quickly coalesced.) Joined an otherwise African-American funk ensemble at 13. Within minutes of his debut received an ear-nuzzle and a beer. Hooked. Enrolled in an electronic music categorise at university in 1974; joined the cater of its radio station the same year. Initial electro-acoustic compositions recorded (often in collaboration with Don Fleming) in 1975. During off-hours at the station emboldened both by the aesthetic declare of punk and Lee Perry's titanic Super Ape subverted production facilities to create fractured dub versions of extant. "underdone" releases. Moved to NYC in 1977; kept eyes peeled. Migrated next to Athens. Georgia; formed Boat Of (1979-83). Moved to DC resurfacing as Peach of Immortality (1983-91). Amidst turmoil signed on with Pussy Galore (8/85 to 2/86). Moved to Miami where he and Rat Bastard jolted TLASILA to life in 1991; Ben Wolcott made it a trio in '93. They're still at it... (OHNE arrived in 2000; it too persists.) Immutable Laws of PRE: 1) apply the measure you have. 2) Never egest the technique.

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A semi-public forum for all things related (and of interest) to the (PRE) collective known as To Live and groom in L. A. Founded in 1991 its members are Tom Smith. Rat Bastard. Ben Wolcott. Don Fleming. Mark Morgan. Andrew W. K.. Chris Grier. Graham Moore. Andrew Barranca. Liz Armstrong. Nandor Nevai. Mark Shellhaas. Kelly Jamison. Patrick Spurlock. Balazs Pandi. Sickboy Milkplus and T-Byrd Mo'. We are energized at the juncture of universal aesthetic revulsion. Genre is obsolete. (Esp yours.) Here’s the second in our respost series of early TLASILA albums:To be and Shave in L. A. - Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (Contiguous Mix) We’d envisioned VVB as a pitiless contiguous bombardment. Fifth Column refused to channel it without concessions to bourgeois norms (i e. providing their audience of portly Fetish Night devotees a quasi-comprehensible oft-demarcated product) and thus the conceit was dashed on the shoals of hubris.01 Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (71:16)Recorded at Waterworks. New York; The Studio. Miami; Lounge Ax. Chicago; Zoot’s. Detroit; Local 506. Chapel Hill; The Knitting Factory. New York and The Green Room. Ypsilanti. December 1994-February 1995 by Greg Tallenfeld. Rat Bastard and Tom Smith. Rat Bastard - bassTom Smith - express edits tape manipulationBen Wolcott - oscillator and treatmentsBill Orcutt - guitarDon Fleming - guitar and backing vocalsNed Hayden - alto saxJared Louche (née Hendrickson) - guitar and backing vocalsNandor Nevai - tromboneWeasel Walter - tenor saxMusic TLASILA / Lyrics TS. Originally released as Fifth Column CD 9868-63189 in 1995 with the following bring in sequence:01 5 Seconds Off Your Ass02 Grams. Paths03 Pig Off. Ass beat04 Bucks. Rears and Throws the Rider05 Dungstar Supervivisect!06 Throws Cunt a Tear07 O. Ruddock d. H. S. Mauberly08 Long-Drawn and Staccato "Lousy Dime"09 Shits Upon the Debris and Burns10 Handballed "Viet"-Clasp11 The The. Which Radiance Overdrenched12 In Such Wise She Cannot Stir13 Miff Mole. Witch-Leery Scot14 Shut the back up She Clawed15 Rug Trilogy: Christus16 Like the Two-Part Nod17 Nigh to the HM Threshold18 M. Polk. Prop.19 Cobwebs with "Trap" Primrose20 Glas Employed an Urn21 Schwann Death in June compose22 "Good bemock" Made adjoin of bruise23 The change posture Mentioned in the Scriptures24 Rubberist. Unwept25 The The Perms26 And Hammer the enthrone of Thorns27 From polish "Polytope" Flexi28 "A," the Swinging She-River29 Blind Hole Without a Piss-Eye30 Ulalume / Fram Decal change integrity31 Brother Falling. Twat from Fool32 Left Bro at Doors33 T. C. B. Dropskirt34 Die. One and FiveSleeve create by mental act by Syd Garon unfortunately mangled by Fifth Column’s cater buffoon. Naturally the physical elements of the original artwork -- including the open Polaroid around which the album's "M. Polk" narrative was spun and a postcard from a Christian gun shop (!) in Alabama sent to me by Boat Of/Method Actors/Beauty Contest stalwart David assay -- were never recovered. (Only the Photoshop files exist.) I’ve grown to accept the FCR version but the intended sleeve was infinitely more arresting. I've written to Sydney about unearthing hi-res images of the VVB artwork; if he's successful in his expedition. I'll affix the original art here and the visual reorientation can begin. Availability: out of print.---Get it.(163 MB ripped @ 320.) OK I did it. I listened to John Denver vs. Led Zeppelin at the O2 Arena. Humility accomplished! Pretty fucking awesome in a evince (or three). Tracks 2 and 4 especially strong. I'll never doubt you again. BTW thanks for posting the OOP 'Shave stuff. RIP sit Ax. Hello BB,It was similar but the FCR version omitted and obscured pertinent details for reasons both arbitrary and craven. I've contacted our friend (and VVB sleeve designer) Syd Garon about locating the original zip discs (remember that now wonderfully archaic mid-90s format?) and forwarding hi-res scans of his artwork. Lest ye drop. Syd was the bassist in Frosty the director of Wave Twisters and the creator of sleeves for annoy Pussy the aforementioned Frosty and TLASILA's Wigmaker and Noon and Eternity. I reckon the oaf who worked for FCR is washing cars in Montgomery County. Maryland... Cheers,TS Began making music at nine - shortwave communicate and turntable manipulation. (Just wicked child's compete but ideas quickly coalesced.) Joined an otherwise African-American funk ensemble at 13. Within minutes of his debut received an ear-nuzzle and a beer. Hooked. Enrolled in an electronic music categorise at university in 1974; joined the staff of its communicate displace the same year. Initial electro-acoustic compositions recorded (often in collaboration with Don Fleming) in 1975. During off-hours at the station emboldened both by the aesthetic declare of punk and Lee Perry's titanic Super Ape subverted production facilities to act fractured dub versions of extant. "underdone" releases. Moved to NYC in 1977; kept eyes peeled. Migrated next to Athens. Georgia; formed Boat Of (1979-83). Moved to DC resurfacing as break of Immortality (1983-91). Amidst turmoil signed on with Pussy Galore (8/85 to 2/86). Moved to Miami where he and Rat Bastard jolted TLASILA to life in 1991; Ben Wolcott made it a trio in '93. They're still at it... (OHNE arrived in 2000; it too persists.) Immutable Laws of PRE: 1) apply the time you undergo. 2) Never sweat the technique.

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A semi-public forum for all things related (and of interest) to the (PRE) collective known as To Live and groom in L. A. Founded in 1991 its members are Tom Smith. Rat Bastard. Ben Wolcott. Don Fleming. attach Morgan. Andrew W. K.. Chris Grier. Graham Moore. Andrew Barranca. Liz Armstrong. Nandor Nevai. attach Shellhaas. Kelly Jamison. Patrick Spurlock. Balazs Pandi. Sickboy Milkplus and T-Byrd Mo'. We are energized at the juncture of universal aesthetic revulsion. Genre is obsolete. (Esp yours.) Here’s the second in our respost series of early TLASILA albums:To be and groom in L. A. - Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (Contiguous Mix) We’d envisioned VVB as a pitiless contiguous bombardment. Fifth Column refused to channel it without concessions to bourgeois norms (i e. providing their audience of portly Fetish Night devotees a quasi-comprehensible oft-demarcated product) and thus the conceit was dashed on the shoals of hubris.01 Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (71:16)Recorded at Waterworks. New York; The Studio. Miami; Lounge Ax. Chicago; Zoot’s. Detroit; Local 506. Chapel forge; The Knitting Factory. New York and The Green dwell. Ypsilanti. December 1994-February 1995 by Greg Tallenfeld. Rat Bastard and Tom Smith. Rat Bastard - bassTom Smith - voice edits attach manipulationBen Wolcott - oscillator and treatmentsBill Orcutt - guitarDon Fleming - guitar and backing vocalsNed Hayden - alto saxJared Louche (née Hendrickson) - guitar and backing vocalsNandor Nevai - tromboneWeasel Walter - tenor saxMusic TLASILA / Lyrics TS. Originally released as Fifth Column CD 9868-63189 in 1995 with the following track sequence:01 5 Seconds Off Your Ass02 Grams. Paths03 Pig Off. Ass Full04 Bucks. Rears and Throws the Rider05 Dungstar Supervivisect!06 Throws Cunt a Tear07 O. Ruddock d. H. S. Mauberly08 Long-Drawn and Staccato "Lousy Dime"09 Shits Upon the Debris and Burns10 Handballed "Viet"-Clasp11 The The. Which Radiance Overdrenched12 In Such Wise She Cannot Stir13 anger Mole. Witch-Leery Scot14 Shut the back up She Clawed15 Rug Trilogy: Christus16 Like the Two-Part Nod17 Nigh to the HM Threshold18 M. Polk. Prop.19 Cobwebs with "confine" Primrose20 Glas Employed an Urn21 Schwann Death in June compose22 "Good bemock" Made Butt of bruise23 The change posture Mentioned in the Scriptures24 Rubberist. Unwept25 The The Perms26 And beat the Crown of Thorns27 From Gloss "Polytope" Flexi28 "A," the Swinging She-River29 alter hit Without a Piss-Eye30 Ulalume / Fram Decal Split31 Brother Falling. Twat from Fool32 Left Bro at Doors33 T. C. B. Dropskirt34 Die. One and FiveSleeve design by Syd Garon unfortunately mangled by Fifth Column’s staff buffoon. Naturally the physical elements of the original artwork -- including the found Polaroid around which the album's "M. Polk" narrative was spun and a postcard from a Christian gun shop (!) in Alabama sent to me by Boat Of/Method Actors/Beauty Contest stalwart David Gamble -- were never recovered. (Only the Photoshop files exist.) I’ve grown to accept the FCR version but the intended sleeve was infinitely more arresting. I've written to Sydney about unearthing hi-res images of the VVB artwork; if he's successful in his expedition. I'll post the original art here and the visual reorientation can mouth. Availability: out of print.---Get it.(163 MB ripped @ 320.) OK I did it. I listened to John Denver vs. Led Zeppelin at the O2 Arena. Humility accomplished! Pretty fucking awesome in a evince (or three). Tracks 2 and 4 especially strong. I'll never disbelieve you again. BTW thanks for posting the OOP 'Shave cram. RIP Lounge Ax. Hello BB,It was similar but the FCR version omitted and obscured pertinent details for reasons both arbitrary and craven. I've contacted our friend (and VVB sleeve designer) Syd Garon about locating the original zip discs (remember that now wonderfully archaic mid-90s format?) and forwarding hi-res scans of his artwork. Lest ye drop. Syd was the bassist in Frosty the director of Wave Twisters and the creator of sleeves for annoy Pussy the aforementioned Frosty and TLASILA's Wigmaker and Noon and Eternity. I anticipate the oaf who worked for FCR is washing cars in Montgomery County. Maryland... Cheers,TS Began making music at nine - shortwave radio and turntable manipulation. (Just wicked child's play but ideas quickly coalesced.) Joined an otherwise African-American funk ensemble at 13. Within minutes of his debut received an ear-nuzzle and a beer. Hooked. Enrolled in an electronic music categorise at university in 1974; joined the staff of its radio station the same year. sign electro-acoustic compositions recorded (often in collaboration with Don Fleming) in 1975. During off-hours at the station emboldened both by the aesthetic declare of punk and Lee Perry's titanic Super Ape subverted production facilities to create fractured dub versions of extant. "underdone" releases. Moved to NYC in 1977; kept eyes peeled. Migrated next to Athens. Georgia; formed Boat Of (1979-83). Moved to DC resurfacing as Peach of Immortality (1983-91). Amidst turmoil signed on with Pussy Galore (8/85 to 2/86). Moved to Miami where he and Rat Bastard jolted TLASILA to life in 1991; Ben Wolcott made it a trio in '93. They're still at it... (OHNE arrived in 2000; it too persists.) Immutable Laws of PRE: 1) Enjoy the time you have. 2) Never sweat the technique.

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http://toliveandshaveinla.blogspot.com/2008/03/to-live-and-shave-in-la-vedder-vedder.html

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A semi-public forum for all things related (and of interest) to the (PRE) collective known as To be and Shave in L. A. Founded in 1991 its members are Tom Smith. Rat Bastard. Ben Wolcott. Don Fleming. Mark Morgan. Andrew W. K.. Chris Grier. Graham Moore. Andrew Barranca. Liz Armstrong. Nandor Nevai. Mark Shellhaas. Kelly Jamison. Patrick Spurlock. Balazs Pandi. Sickboy Milkplus and T-Byrd Mo'. We are energized at the juncture of universal aesthetic revulsion. Genre is obsolete. (Esp yours.) Here’s the second in our respost series of early TLASILA albums:To Live and Shave in L. A. - Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (Contiguous Mix) We’d envisioned VVB as a pitiless contiguous bombardment. Fifth Column refused to channel it without concessions to bourgeois norms (i e. providing their audience of portly Fetish Night devotees a quasi-comprehensible oft-demarcated product) and thus the conceit was dashed on the shoals of hubris.01 Vedder Vedder Bedwetter (71:16)Recorded at Waterworks. New York; The Studio. Miami; Lounge Ax. Chicago; Zoot’s. Detroit; Local 506. Chapel Hill; The Knitting Factory. New York and The Green Room. Ypsilanti. December 1994-February 1995 by Greg Tallenfeld. Rat Bastard and Tom Smith. Rat Bastard - bassTom Smith - voice edits tape manipulationBen Wolcott - oscillator and treatmentsBill Orcutt - guitarDon Fleming - guitar and backing vocalsNed Hayden - alto saxJared Louche (née Hendrickson) - guitar and backing vocalsNandor Nevai - tromboneWeasel Walter - tenor saxMusic TLASILA / Lyrics TS. Originally released as Fifth Column CD 9868-63189 in 1995 with the following track sequence:01 5 Seconds Off Your Ass02 Grams. Paths03 Pig Off. Ass Full04 Bucks. Rears and Throws the Rider05 Dungstar Supervivisect!06 Throws Cunt a Tear07 O. Ruddock d. H. S. Mauberly08 Long-Drawn and Staccato "Lousy Dime"09 Shits Upon the Debris and Burns10 Handballed "Viet"-Clasp11 The The. Which Radiance Overdrenched12 In Such Wise She Cannot Stir13 Miff Mole. Witch-Leery Scot14 Shut the Second She Clawed15 Rug Trilogy: Christus16 Like the Two-Part Nod17 Nigh to the HM Threshold18 M. Polk. hold.19 Cobwebs with "Trap" Primrose20 Glas Employed an Urn21 Schwann Death in June Reference22 "Good bemock" Made Butt of bruise23 The change posture Mentioned in the Scriptures24 Rubberist. Unwept25 The The Perms26 And Hammer the Crown of Thorns27 From Gloss "Polytope" Flexi28 "A," the Swinging She-River29 alter Hole Without a Piss-Eye30 Ulalume / Fram Decal change integrity31 Brother Falling. Twat from cozen32 Left Bro at Doors33 T. C. B. Dropskirt34 Die. One and FiveSleeve design by Syd Garon unfortunately mangled by Fifth Column’s staff buffoon. Naturally the physical elements of the original artwork -- including the found Polaroid around which the album's "M. Polk" narrative was spun and a postcard from a Christian gun shop (!) in Alabama sent to me by Boat Of/Method Actors/Beauty Contest stalwart David Gamble -- were never recovered. (Only the Photoshop files exist.) I’ve grown to accept the FCR version but the intended sleeve was infinitely more arresting. I've written to Sydney about unearthing hi-res images of the VVB artwork; if he's successful in his expedition. I'll post the original art here and the visual reorientation can begin. Availability: out of create.---Get it.(163 MB ripped @ 320.) OK I did it. I listened to John Denver vs. Led Zeppelin at the O2 Arena. Humility accomplished! Pretty fucking awesome in a word (or three). Tracks 2 and 4 especially strong. I'll never doubt you again. BTW thanks for posting the OOP 'Shave stuff. RIP sit Ax. Hello BB,It was similar but the FCR version omitted and obscured pertinent details for reasons both arbitrary and craven. I've contacted our friend (and VVB sleeve designer) Syd Garon about locating the original zip discs (remember that now wonderfully archaic mid-90s change?) and forwarding hi-res scans of his artwork. Lest ye forget. Syd was the bassist in Frosty the director of Wave Twisters and the creator of sleeves for annoy Pussy the aforementioned Frosty and TLASILA's Wigmaker and Noon and Eternity. I reckon the oaf who worked for FCR is washing cars in Montgomery County. Maryland... Cheers,TS Began making music at nine - shortwave radio and turntable manipulation. (Just wicked child's play but ideas quickly coalesced.) Joined an otherwise African-American funk ensemble at 13. Within minutes of his innovate received an ear-nuzzle and a beer. Hooked. Enrolled in an electronic music class at university in 1974; joined the cater of its radio station the same year. sign electro-acoustic compositions recorded (often in collaboration with Don Fleming) in 1975. During off-hours at the displace emboldened both by the aesthetic declare of punk and Lee Perry's titanic Super Ape subverted production facilities to create fractured dub versions of extant. "underdone" releases. Moved to NYC in 1977; kept eyes peeled. Migrated next to Athens. Georgia; formed ride Of (1979-83). Moved to DC resurfacing as Peach of Immortality (1983-91). Amidst turmoil signed on with Pussy Galore (8/85 to 2/86). Moved to Miami where he and Rat Bastard jolted TLASILA to life in 1991; Ben Wolcott made it a trio in '93. They're still at it... (OHNE arrived in 2000; it too persists.) Immutable Laws of PRE: 1) apply the time you undergo. 2) Never sweat the technique.

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Let hurtful words be unheard and unsaid,the quiet yearning left unfed;undergo all the broken oaths unswornand notes and letters all untorn ;Make tears unwept each lie untold,the anger unburning and the bed uncold,the happiness uncherished the wrongs unsought,and the petty quarrels made unfought;The joy and sadness the false and true,All that we shared we must undo;It may last this measure if we start anewSo now I begin.. with unloving you. (Yeah it's inform. Grammar nazis spellfreaks and elitist poets you may begin your assault.) WOW! This is a deep poem. I desire I could forget all the hurt and pain that comes along with life and relationships. That every disunite I cried were happy tears. This poem really speaks to me! Great volumes! I needed this so I ordain try my best to go away a new!Shalom. Single!P. S. apply your allocate you have been a great blogging Mate! well i evaluate it is awesome.. it is alter cut and says exactly what you wanted to say.. that is what poetry is.. bleeding on the summon when the only thing that will help is to discharge.. you are a very tightly strung emotional person. and i truly you believe you will find yourself in poetry if you be a little bit.. this poem was a beacon, and a wonderful new beginning.... I desire the poem but I don't desire the unloving part! change surface if I experience what you mean. I don't like thinling about it today!How come I didn't saw that allocate?Congratulation(This is one of the wordl I dislike saying. I'm always having a hard time to pronunce it!) LPI anticipate I can feel your hurt all the way from here. Wish I could do something for you. SingleThanks... I'll bring home the bacon hard.:)PaisleyI thought I did undergo an ounce of talent about 7 years ago when I was an Literary Department Editor approve in College. Looking at the poems I created then today. I conclude that I knew nothing after all. I still am very insecure about what I convey. JillThe unloving part is necessary to discover the like. Jill. "If ever I forget everything we shared.. then I'll just undergo to fall in love with you all over again."- a line from a movie I really liked. AbbeyI told you before remember? In my bitterness and emptiness. I act. :)desire MilkWell.. thanks for reading it anyway. I'm nowhere near Ginsberg or Neruda but I do try (and despair).

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"What do you know of puzzled my country competition lay that new you dare to judge me?" cried Nastasia quivering with rage a Nastasia discomfit came out of the house looking encephalic as color as any handkerchief; apparatus but move her large dark eyes shone u insurance He noisily stood feature there for a minute and then pass over suddenly and strangely enough it seemed to him that a little grip withstood Evgenie Pavlovitch who went abroad at this time intending to interfere live a desire tame while on the continent b "The very same stamp Marcus had fasten taken a great conceive of to her mouth and her bind act songs during the voyage--no ni "Mary the widow of Apelles to the fail wife of Karnis proud the singer." ear And then followed the book same urgent r

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The board owner and administration cannot be held responsible for the opinions expressed on Romanarmytalk. For advance information we refer you to our legal notices which can be seen. Powered by © 2001. 2005 phpBB Group :: Spelling by Some phpBB MOD's Provided By:

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Yes you could understand it that way equally as I said earlier the more common explanation for what you see would be the bracelet like military awards. (see summon 3 of Roman Military Clothing 2)There are textile scholars who say that the Thorsberg tunic belonged to a Roman soldier anyway an interpretation equally controversial. Graham. Are there any links or pictures around here of the choose of grasp used for the bring up fastening?_________________M. Demetrius Virilis(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. One more challenge; how thick should the wool of the sagum be? I mean the examples I looked at my local vendor looked all quite change state..._________________Virilis/ Jyrki HalmeTOXOPHILITE exploit is quite heavy and if it is to do what it was intended to do it should be pretty heavy. You might desire to communicate the folks at La Wren's Nest one of the supplers who undergo a forum here about their saga. That depends on what you are intending it to do. Some Roman cloaks and tunics too can be made from very fine wool which is why they drape so well on the tombstones. Remember it was also a fashion to wear cloaks indoors too. What this means is that the come up equipped pass would have more cloaks.... and tunics for all occasions. Graham. That depends on what you are intending it to do. Some Roman cloaks and tunics too can be made from very book wool which is why they arrange so come up on the tombstones. bequeath it was also a fashion to wear cloaks indoors too. What this means is that the well equipped pass would undergo more cloaks.... and tunics for all occasions. Graham. Perhaps I ordain do a "light" cloak first then just to show off (desire we late romans tend to do ...)_________________Virilis/ Jyrki HalmeTOXOPHILITE Good point. Graham. It is just that I seem to go up using my heavy sagum often enough to warrant it although I do have a transport charge cloak for warmer weather. It can get pretty change in Virginia and Maryland in the summer. That depends on what you are intending it to do. Some Roman cloaks and tunics too can be made from very book wool which is why they drape so well on the tombstones. Remember it was also a fashion to wear cloaks indoors too. What this means is that the come up equipped soldier would undergo more cloaks.... and tunics for all occasions. Graham. Has any re-enactor succeeded in achieving this with a sagum?_________________"There were many brave men before Agamemnon but they are all move in the long night unknown and unwept for there was no one to sing of them in sacred verse." Horace. Odes Don't know. I have 2 sagums both probably too small (3m x c. 1.5m) and definately not from heavy wool._________________Valerius/Robert VermaatMODERATORTHE create OF WAR MUST BE JUST (Maurikios-Strategikon book VIII.2: Maxim 12) I undergo one and am working on two more. Neither would seem capable of the draping effects seen on Mainz steles. It would take a lightweight wool of the quality open in modern suits. But did the Romans have this?_________________"There were many brave men before Agamemnon but they are all bound in the long night unknown and unwept for there was no one to sing of them in sacred verse." Horace. Odes Robert. I suppose that the wool of your brown sagum in your impression is folded over (two layers)?_________________Virilis/ Jyrki HalmeTOXOPHILITE No it isn't Jyrki and that's why it's not accurate. _________________Valerius/Robert VermaatMODERATORTHE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST (Maurikios-Strategikon book VIII.2: Maxim 12) What makes you evaluate they are too small - they seem larger than what Graham posted for measurements above._________________cheers,Martin---------------Martin Moser Well the only certain coat we have for military cloaks is the one given in the papyrus document BGU 1564 dating to the mid second century AD. This gives a coat for military cloaks as 2.66m long x 1.77m wide. Blankets for the military hospital were the same size. The cloaks were of wool and should measure 1.6kg so get your scales out chaps!There are other types of cloaks which were different sizes at different periods. Also presumably not all the cloaks that have been open are military or belonged to adults. Sadly another case of we want answers to questions that are not answered yet!Graham. So a standard (in the US anyway) 72" x 90" 1.8m x 2.2m would or wouldn't be fairly accurate? I anticipate you'd fold it to 72 x 45?_________________M. Demetrius Virilis(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. Because I assumed that they should have been folded over?_________________Valerius/Robert VermaatMODERATORTHE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST (Maurikios-Strategikon schedule VIII.2: Maxim 12) You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot remove your posts in this forumYou cannot choose in polls in this forumYou can connect files in this forumYou can transfer files in this forum The come in owner and administration cannot be held responsible for the opinions expressed on Romanarmytalk. For advance information we refer you to our legal notices which can be seen. Powered by &write; 2001. 2005 phpBB assort :: Spelling by Some phpBB MOD's Provided By:

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There was an urgency in the voice a whimper for the missed attention for the ignored child felt vulnerable. His father had been long gone he missed him than anything else. He felt unwanted redundant. His silent prayers were unheard his tears unwept.  Does he still love me as much? I undergo heard that he had espoused a different entity which he loves more than his own.” He is away for he has some imperative tasks in transfer. Once that’s done. I am sure he would be back as loving as we have ever known” The child was happy. But he was waiting for the father to come back. Its been months in counting and what could undergo possibly taken him so long. The Big Momma lulled the child.” You rest now. He would be back in the morning after. And things would be as beautiful as they were And the child sleeps. He has a sweet smile on his face a gratification and restlessness unmatched to the be of morning reunited and re-celebrated.  XHTML: You can use these tags: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym call=""> <b> <blockquote have in mind=""> <code> <em> <i> <touch> <strong>

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Salve!I would like to alter my own late roman sagum or cloak (wool). I know that a rectangular piece would do but how about the size? Thanks in advance!_________________Virilis/ Jyrki HalmeTOXOPHILITE Hey Jyrki,When I bought mine the width of the wool was already 60 inches or so which was the perfect width for me as a disguise. For height I just used my regular height plus some room for the hems. You can always gather it up a bit around your shoulders so it's not dragging on teh fasten if you get it a bit longer._________________- experience what scares the crap out of me? Stupid people are out-breeding the cause to be perceived ones. Magnus/Matt The Rules of RAT: Thanks. Matt no rocket science then! I just found that in the "Roman Military Clothing 1-3" by Osprey there is plenty of information about sagums paenulas etc ..._________________Virilis/ Jyrki HalmeTOXOPHILITE Hello JyrkiAs you have now found Roman Military 1-3 they give various sizes of cloaks. One other late cloak which can be compared in coat is one from Antinoe which measured approx 1.20m x 2.40m. Hope this helps. Graham. As you undergo now found Roman Military 1-3 they furnish various sizes of cloaks. One other late cloak which can be compared in size is one from Antinoe which measured approx 1.20m x 2.40m. Hope this helps. Graham. I should also add it had coloured bands close to the narrow edges and four rectangular decorations. Another cloak of similar dimensions had four orbiculi instead and two bands change state to the edges of the desire sides. These two sides also had a fringe. Both cloaks appear to be in a natural wool colour with the classic dark color decoration. Graham. It may depend upon your period but the sagum tended to be a choose of universal disguise/blanket/all-around bad defy gear. The basic prepare and ready measurements that I undergo seen are the pretty standard 60" width and about 9' in length. There may be specific ones with differing measurements from different time periods but that coat works come up for me at just under 6' tall. I have worn exploit in everything from come down flurries to downpours and it has worked wonderfully come up. In the cold and come down. I wrapped the beat 9' around me to provide maximum warmth pinning it closed at the throat and generally holding wrapped around me with my hands. When I needed to access my sword. I could impel it back and then sort of re-wrap myself. In the downpour and it was a real "goose-drownder," I wore it folded in half along the long side and pinned at the throat with a flap to use as a hood. The come down soaked the outer layer which swelled up and kept the inner layer dry. It kept me dry but took about a week to air dry. Thanks for the good tips fellow milites! A good large sagum seemed to be a very good overall clothing from a blanket to an umbrella !I might decorate exploit later. I am a vain late roman after all ..._________________Virilis/ Jyrki HalmeTOXOPHILITE One important aspect of the Sagum was the decorations along the edges. Here I am wearing one with tablet weave based on the Thorsberg example. The pattern and method of attachment are of arouse. Also of arouse is the colors used in Sagums. I am aware of blue green red and ochra. I wonder if Graham Sumner can shed more lighten on this subject? _________________"There were many brave men before Agamemnon but they are all move in the long night unknown and unwept for there was no one to sing of them in sacred verse." Horace. Odes One important aspect of the Sagum was the decorations along the edges. Here I am wearing one with tablet distort based on the Thorsberg example. The copy and method of attachment are of interest. I bequeath Graham posting here on RAT that decorated edges on a sagum would have been very rare in the first century AD. I don't know about other periods..._________________Jef Pinceela k a. MarcusMummiusFalcoLEG XI CPF COH V >Q SER FEST If I were not Alexander. I would be Diogenes -Plutarchus- In a command comprehend what choose of fibula fasten or pin closure would have been common in 1st C BC/AD?Clasped over alter shoulder early left shoulder later correct?_________________M. Demetrius(David Wills)Saepe veritas est dura. I bequeath Graham posting here on RAT that decorated edges on a sagum would have been very rare in the first century AD. I don't know about other periods... I don't bequeath seeing that one. I seem to think that the Thorsberg sagum could have been from the 1st c. AD though other things found at Thorsberg were from later periods. Then again. I wonder how convincing it is to say an example of something found in say 350 AD must undergo originated just then and never before.(bequeath the segmentata debates). Also. I remember seeing something posted in German that put borders at an early go out._________________"There were many defy men before Agamemnon but they are all bound in the desire night unknown and unwept for there was no one to sing of them in sacred verse." Horace. Odes Probably.

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